Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Ethos Agriculture’s Journey from Vision to Impact in Coffee Sustainability: Part Two

In the second half of this article, we discover how the Coffee Barometer attempts to bridge the gap between discourse and action, envisioning a sustainable…


María Andrée Is Honing Olfactory Skills in Antigua 

A sensorial class in Guatemala at Artista de Café teaches how to use your nose for the ultimate coffee experience. BY JORDAN BUCHANANBARISTA MAGAZINE ONLINE Photos courtesy of Arista de Café Walking into a specialty café in Guatemala, your nostrils are infused with aromas from the best coffees in the country. Your nose recollects the […]


Cup of Excellence to Offer El Salvador Immersion Program

The immersion experience will allow participants to grow their knowledge on Salvadoran culture and coffee varieties. BY J. MARIE CARLANBARISTA MAGAZINE ONLINE Photos courtesy of Cup of Excellence Cup of Excellence is launching a new learning opportunity in 2024: the Origin Immersion Program, to be held in El Salvador from February 26 to March 5. […]


Joven and Atucún Join Forces to Empower Young Farmers

The two brands have collaborated to create a unique coffee bar and support young farmers in the coffee and cacao industries. BY VASILEIA FANARIOTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Photos courtesy of Joven Coffee  For their first-of-its-kind bar, Joven Coffee and Atucún Chocolateria combined coffee beans, extracted cocoa butter, and organic cane sugar. Committed to supporting young farmers […]

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Cerrado Mineiro Green Coffee Auction Launching Online Jan. 29

From the heart of the Brazilian coffee lands, the Cerrado Miniero green coffee auction is for the first time happening globally online this year. Taking place Jan. 29-Feb. 3, the…


Coffee News Recap, 26 Jan: Researchers create new genetic map to “future proof” arabica production, UAE & Italian Coffee Champions crowned at WoC Dubai and SIGEP & other stories

Every Friday, Perfect Daily Grind rounds up the top coffee industry news from the previous week. Here are this week’s coffee news stories. The word of the week is: competitions. Mon, 22 Jan Timemore launches crowdfunding campaign for upcoming Millab E01 portable electric coffee grinder. The wireless electric coffee grinder features a 5,000 mAh lithium battery […]


Joven and Atucún Join Forces to Empower Young Farmers

The two brands have collaborated to create a unique coffee bar and support young farmers in the coffee and cacao industries. BY VASILEIA FANARIOTISENIOR ONLINE…


Three Questions with IWCA Executive Director Blanca Castro

When International Women’s Coffee Alliance (IWCA) Executive Director began her job years ago at the Guatemalan coffee association Anacafé, she knew next to nothing about coffee.  “I just pretended that…

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

U.S. Coffee Championships 2023 Baltimore Qualifiers Results

More than 100 competitors brought their talent to Baltimore to take part in six competitions, and 63 will progress to nationals in April. BY NATE KLOCKBARISTA MAGAZINE ONLINE Photos by Matthew Temple courtesy of the U.S. Coffee Championships Last weekend, my hometown welcomed the U.S. Coffee Championships (USCC) qualifiers with the charm only Baltimore could […]


Toronto’s Pilot Coffee Roasters Acquiring Bridgehead Coffee for $3.6 Million

Toronto, Ontario-based specialty coffee roaster and retailer Pilot Coffee Roasters is acquiring Ottawa-based Bridgehead Coffee in a deal worth approximately US$3.6 million.  Bridgehead, which has 21 coffee shop locations throughout…


Understanding the Process: Anaerobic Processing

We continue our series on fermentation with a look at the anaerobic process, which has quickly become a favorite in cafés worldwide. BY TANYA NANETTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Photos courtesy of Bram de Hoog for Ally Coffee A simple cup of well-brewed coffee can have endless variations of flavors and aromas. These are closely linked to […]


Ukraine’s Soloway Coffee Opens First US Shop in Chicago

A specialty coffee roasting company based in western Ukraine called Soloway Coffee (Instagram link) this week opened its first location in the United States. Beans roasted in Ternopil, Ukraine, using…

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

minimum dose size?

Jan 31, 2024 |

I use the Hario switch to brew my coffee and am trying to reduce my caffeine consumption. Hence I would like to brew smaller cups of coffee. I am currently using 10g of coffee with 160g of water. (1:16 Ratio) I am wondering if there is a minimum amount of coffee...

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

I used to wonder why my coffee was almost always sour. It seems other people have the same problem, so I just want to share my story, my frustration, and my happy discovery.

I'm also curious how other people learned the difference between sour vs stale? And what words you do you use to describe those flavors?

TL;DR- bought a good grinder, bought fresh roasted coffee. Learned that stale sour is different than under extracted sour. Also, old beans stale is different than old grounds stale.

For my home coffee, I used to grind finer and finer and brew hotter and hotter and still have problems with sourness… I was buying grocery store coffee, sometimes preground, and using a cheapo javapresse ceramic burr hand grinder. Also, I'm the only coffee drinker in the house, so it could take weeks or months to use up a bag.

Recently, I learned that what I thought was sour coffee was stale coffee. Under extracted sourness is different. It has a mouth puckering sour feel, not just a sour taste. I'm even thinking that roasted too long ago vs. ground too long ago staleness have different stale flavors.

My timeline of realization went like this: Early December- gifted a bag of roasted in October Intelligentsia beans, put them in the freezer knowing I would get a good grinder soon. Mid December- bought some specialty coffee locally about 5 days after it was roasted. Had the coffee shop grind it for me. I started keeping a journal of tasting notes and brewing methods.

That local coffee tasted a bit harsh for a day or two, then leveled off and was good, then lost its aroma, but tasted okay. This over a week or two. Then I got my 1ZPresso grinder and thawed out the Intelligentsia beans. They were good but just a touch ashy on the finish, if steeped too long. I mostly brewed those for the next couple weeks.

Then I busted the local coffee back out a couple days ago, so it was ground almost a month ago. No aroma to the grounds. Suuuuper sour coffee like I used to always make. Tastes like vegetables. Tastes I don't know, green? Undrinkable. Tossed it all out.

Went back to Intelligentsia, ashy/roasty flavour more evident. Tried a new aeropress recipe with much coarser grind. Totally different! Not as ashy, but…. sour. My mouth felt like I ate sour candy. So that's what sour means!

The beans that were roasted months ago tasted ashy-roasty-sour when fresh ground, the fresh roasted but ground weeks ago coffee tasted plant-sour, and the under extracted coffee tasted (and felt) sour candy sour. Only the last one had the notably different mouthfeel.

Maybe time past roast has more of an effect on purely internal/ time based chemical changes, while time past grinding has more of an effect on just oxidation type changes due to the increased surface area?

I'm starting to experiment and make bad coffee on purpose now. Too hot water, too cold, waaaaay too much coffee, or extreme grind sizes. I hope I learn more about defects this way, and I hope this story helps someone!

submitted by /u/Classy-J
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Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Perfect Little Beans

Chinmey Hill Coffee uses specialty-grade beans with zero primary defects (such as black beans or sour beans) and less than five secondary defects (such as broken beans). This is important because primary defects will greatly affect the taste of the coffee. Having zero defects allows the coffee to be the most optimal flavor.

Window for Optimal Flavor

Chimney Hill Coffee ships our coffee the same day it was roasted, so you will receive it before it enters the window of optimal flavor.  This means you’ll never miss the opportunity to enjoy the coffee’s peak flavor.

Coffee Ratings

Coffee undergoes many scoring processes by professionals who achieved their Q Grader certification. Coffee is first graded when it’s green. If there are defects the coffee is determined to be “not-specialty grade”. For those coffees that pass green grading, they are sample roasted and cupped. (Cupping is the official term for critically tasting and scoring coffees. The official cupping form is standard worldwide, and where the 100-point scoring system comes from.) A coffee’s dry fragrance, wet aroma, flavor, aftertaste, body, acidity, balance, and overall impression are taken into consideration while uniformity issues and defects, will lower the overall score.

Specialty Coffee

Specialty coffee, coined by Erna Knutsen in 1974, refers to a coffee that receives a quality grading score of 80 percent or higher. While “premium” or “gourmet” seem like they’re synonymous with “specialty,” they simply are marketing terms with no defined standards. Specialty coffees are grown in specific and ideal micro-climates, and have distinctive and unique flavor profiles, with little to no defects.

Third-Wave Coffee

We’re currently in the third wave of coffee. The first wave of American coffee put pre-ground, vacuum-sealed cans in kitchens across America. The second wave started with the late ‘60s introduction of Peet’s coffee (by Alfred Peet) through the proliferation of Starbucks. The third wave of coffee focuses on origin transparency, nuanced flavors, and artisan roasting. The term “third wave” is synonymous with specialty coffee.

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

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