Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Breaking New Ground: A Sicilian Coffee Plantation, Part 2

The Morettino family has successfully cultivated a coffee plantation right in Sicily. Next on the agenda: making the island an international coffee hub. BY JOSEPH PHELANSPECIAL TO BARISTA MAGAZINE ONLINE Feature photo by Tomas Anton Escobar via Unsplash Editor’s note: Check out part one of this story here. Andrea Morettino’s family has proven that coffee […]


Brewing at Home and on the Road With Diego Campos

We talk to the first Colombian World Barista Champion and Diamante Coffee Farm founder Diego Campos about his brewing habits. BY TANYA NANETTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Photos courtesy of Diego Campos The focal point of a coffee worker’s professional life is, obviously, coffee. Whether for a customer, to check a specific production batch, or to verify the […]


Get Ready for The Barista League’s 2024 Season

The Barista League has announced 12 competitions across four continents. BY J. MARIE CARLANBARISTA MAGAZINE ONLINE Photos courtesy of The Barista League When The Barista League announces new events, it’s worth paying attention! This year, the schedule will be organized by geographic location, bringing together coffee people in various communities. At The Barista League in […]


Is the World Barista Championship too exclusive & expensive for competitors?

There are a number of competitions in specialty coffee designed to test the skills and knowledge of industry professionals. However, many consider the World Barista Championship (WBC) to be one of the most esteemed and highly regarded events, acting as a platform to showcase excellence in the barista profession. There are many reasons to celebrate […]

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Out Now: The February + March 2024 Issue of Barista Magazine!

In our new issue we feature Lisa Lawson from Glasgow, Scotland, take a look at the newest grinders, explore spring drink inspiration, see how more women are getting involved in coffee tech, and much more! BY SARAH ALLENBARISTA MAGAZINE We’re stoked to announce the release of the February + March 2024 issue of Barista Magazine, […]


Three Questions with IWCA Executive Director Blanca Castro

When International Women’s Coffee Alliance (IWCA) Executive Director began her job years ago at the Guatemalan coffee association Anacafé, she knew next to nothing about coffee.  “I just pretended that…


Serving Coffee in the Epicenter

The Turkish specialty-coffee community is coming together to support earthquake relief. BY MICHAEL BUTTERWORTHSPECIAL TO BARISTA MAGAZINE ONLINE When Niji Coffee went live on Instagram,…


PRF El Salvador announces speakers and panellists

Following a call for applications in October 2022, Producer & Roaster Forum (PRF) has announced its first speakers and panellists for PRF El Salvador. The two-day forum will be held on 16 and 17 March 2023 at the Salamanca Exhibition Centre in San Salvador. The event is set to return to El Salvador after it […]

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

New AFCA Director Gilbert Gatali on the 20th African Fine Coffees Conference

As the African Fine Coffees Association (AFCA) prepares for the 20th iteration of its flagship event, the African Fine Coffees Conference and Exhibition, the group is operating under new executive…


Brewing at Home and on the Road with Wilford Lamastus Jr.

We talk to the multi-time Panama Brewers Cup champion about his brewing preferences. BY TANYA NANETTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Photos courtesy of Wilford Lamastus Coffee professionals tend to spend most of their days brewing coffee. It can be an espresso shot pulled for a customer or a cupping to check out a new roaster to choose […]


3 All-Women Coffee Roasting Companies that Are Changing the Game

The world of specialty coffee is still largely governed by men, but these all-female specialty-coffee roasters are helping to close the gender gap. BY TANYA NANETTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Feature photo courtesy of Lot Zero/7Gr As is the case for many commercial sectors, the world of specialty coffee continues to display gender disparity along the entire […]


Study Shines New Light on the Complex Arabica Coffee Genome

Researchers in Italy say they’ve shed new light on arabica coffee’s large and complex genome, which may ultimately help breeders seeking desirable traits such as high quality and disease resistance….

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

minimum dose size?

Jan 31, 2024 |

I use the Hario switch to brew my coffee and am trying to reduce my caffeine consumption. Hence I would like to brew smaller cups of coffee. I am currently using 10g of coffee with 160g of water. (1:16 Ratio) I am wondering if there is a minimum amount of coffee...

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

I used to wonder why my coffee was almost always sour. It seems other people have the same problem, so I just want to share my story, my frustration, and my happy discovery.

I'm also curious how other people learned the difference between sour vs stale? And what words you do you use to describe those flavors?

TL;DR- bought a good grinder, bought fresh roasted coffee. Learned that stale sour is different than under extracted sour. Also, old beans stale is different than old grounds stale.

For my home coffee, I used to grind finer and finer and brew hotter and hotter and still have problems with sourness… I was buying grocery store coffee, sometimes preground, and using a cheapo javapresse ceramic burr hand grinder. Also, I'm the only coffee drinker in the house, so it could take weeks or months to use up a bag.

Recently, I learned that what I thought was sour coffee was stale coffee. Under extracted sourness is different. It has a mouth puckering sour feel, not just a sour taste. I'm even thinking that roasted too long ago vs. ground too long ago staleness have different stale flavors.

My timeline of realization went like this: Early December- gifted a bag of roasted in October Intelligentsia beans, put them in the freezer knowing I would get a good grinder soon. Mid December- bought some specialty coffee locally about 5 days after it was roasted. Had the coffee shop grind it for me. I started keeping a journal of tasting notes and brewing methods.

That local coffee tasted a bit harsh for a day or two, then leveled off and was good, then lost its aroma, but tasted okay. This over a week or two. Then I got my 1ZPresso grinder and thawed out the Intelligentsia beans. They were good but just a touch ashy on the finish, if steeped too long. I mostly brewed those for the next couple weeks.

Then I busted the local coffee back out a couple days ago, so it was ground almost a month ago. No aroma to the grounds. Suuuuper sour coffee like I used to always make. Tastes like vegetables. Tastes I don't know, green? Undrinkable. Tossed it all out.

Went back to Intelligentsia, ashy/roasty flavour more evident. Tried a new aeropress recipe with much coarser grind. Totally different! Not as ashy, but…. sour. My mouth felt like I ate sour candy. So that's what sour means!

The beans that were roasted months ago tasted ashy-roasty-sour when fresh ground, the fresh roasted but ground weeks ago coffee tasted plant-sour, and the under extracted coffee tasted (and felt) sour candy sour. Only the last one had the notably different mouthfeel.

Maybe time past roast has more of an effect on purely internal/ time based chemical changes, while time past grinding has more of an effect on just oxidation type changes due to the increased surface area?

I'm starting to experiment and make bad coffee on purpose now. Too hot water, too cold, waaaaay too much coffee, or extreme grind sizes. I hope I learn more about defects this way, and I hope this story helps someone!

submitted by /u/Classy-J
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Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Perfect Little Beans

Chinmey Hill Coffee uses specialty-grade beans with zero primary defects (such as black beans or sour beans) and less than five secondary defects (such as broken beans). This is important because primary defects will greatly affect the taste of the coffee. Having zero defects allows the coffee to be the most optimal flavor.

Window for Optimal Flavor

Chimney Hill Coffee ships our coffee the same day it was roasted, so you will receive it before it enters the window of optimal flavor.  This means you’ll never miss the opportunity to enjoy the coffee’s peak flavor.

Coffee Ratings

Coffee undergoes many scoring processes by professionals who achieved their Q Grader certification. Coffee is first graded when it’s green. If there are defects the coffee is determined to be “not-specialty grade”. For those coffees that pass green grading, they are sample roasted and cupped. (Cupping is the official term for critically tasting and scoring coffees. The official cupping form is standard worldwide, and where the 100-point scoring system comes from.) A coffee’s dry fragrance, wet aroma, flavor, aftertaste, body, acidity, balance, and overall impression are taken into consideration while uniformity issues and defects, will lower the overall score.

Specialty Coffee

Specialty coffee, coined by Erna Knutsen in 1974, refers to a coffee that receives a quality grading score of 80 percent or higher. While “premium” or “gourmet” seem like they’re synonymous with “specialty,” they simply are marketing terms with no defined standards. Specialty coffees are grown in specific and ideal micro-climates, and have distinctive and unique flavor profiles, with little to no defects.

Third-Wave Coffee

We’re currently in the third wave of coffee. The first wave of American coffee put pre-ground, vacuum-sealed cans in kitchens across America. The second wave started with the late ‘60s introduction of Peet’s coffee (by Alfred Peet) through the proliferation of Starbucks. The third wave of coffee focuses on origin transparency, nuanced flavors, and artisan roasting. The term “third wave” is synonymous with specialty coffee.

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

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