Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Florencia y Fortunata: A Café Empowering Women in Peru

The Cusco café, founded by Carolina Peralta Minaya, sells coffee from women producers and features women demonstrating their skills behind the bar. BY JORDAN BUCHANANBARISTA MAGAZINE ONLINE Photos courtesy of Carolina Peralta Minaya Traceability, sustainability, and conscientiousness are key values pervading the specialty-coffee trade. For many consumers and traders, these values inform their decision to […]


How to roast anaerobically fermented coffee

Among the many different kinds of experimental processing methods, anaerobic fermentation is perhaps the most popular and intriguing. Interest in this processing technique is only growing, with more and more anaerobic fermented coffee available in cafés and roasteries around the world. Moreover, of all the advanced processing methods, this particular technique has one of the […]


Ethos Agriculture’s Journey from Vision to Impact in Coffee Sustainability: Part Two

In the second half of this article, we discover how the Coffee Barometer attempts to bridge the gap between discourse and action, envisioning a sustainable future for the coffee sector. BY VASILEIA FANARIOTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Featured photo courtesy of Rodrigo Flores via Unsplash As we embark on the second part of our conversation with Ethos […]


Why it’s easier for wealthier producers to grow specialty coffee

It takes money – and sometimes a lot – to grow specialty coffee. Producers not only need to continuously maintain and improve quality and yields, but they also have to invest back into their farms. Whether it’s replacing equipment and machinery or planting more resilient varieties, producers need to turn a profit to operate their […]

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

3 Noteworthy Cafés in the Borough of Brooklyn, N.Y.

We explore three standout Brooklyn cafés: drip, BKG, and Coffee Project New York. BY EMILY MENESES BARISTA MAGAZINE ONLINE Cover photo by Nelson Ndongala via Unsplash Whether you’re a New York local or planning your next NYC trip, you won’t want to miss out on Brooklyn’s vibrant (and constantly evolving) coffee scene. Today, we’re exploring […]


An In-Depth Look at Gruppo Cimbali’s Coffee Technician Wheel

The Coffee Technician Wheel is a new tool that helps technicians understand the complexity of coffee extraction. BY VASILEIA FANARIOTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Photos courtesy of Edgardo Ferrero and Espresso Academy Coffee technicians are responsible for a complex set of tasks related to the production and extraction of coffee. They manage customer requests and need to […]


Understanding the Process: Double Fermentation

Continuing our series on coffee processing, we learn about double fermentation, a term that can refer to several different processes. BY TANYA NANETTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Photos courtesy of Cafe Imports Editor’s note: Check out other entries in our “Understanding the Process“ series here. When exploring the wonderful world of high-quality coffee, you’ll discover that no […]


PRF El Salvador announces speakers and panellists

Following a call for applications in October 2022, Producer & Roaster Forum (PRF) has announced its first speakers and panellists for PRF El Salvador. The two-day forum will be held on 16 and 17 March 2023 at the Salamanca Exhibition Centre in San Salvador. The event is set to return to El Salvador after it […]

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Book Review: From Nerd to Pro, by Patrik Rolf

From Nerd to Pro: A Coffee Journey is an autobiography by roaster, café operator, and coffee competitor Patrik Rolf sharing his coffee journey. BY TANYA NANETTI SENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Featured photo by Tanya Nanetti I’ve read plenty of books on coffee over the years: manuals on how to brew great coffee at home, books on […]


Is the World Barista Championship too exclusive & expensive for competitors?

There are a number of competitions in specialty coffee designed to test the skills and knowledge of industry professionals. However, many consider the World Barista Championship (WBC) to be one of the most esteemed and highly regarded events, acting as a platform to showcase excellence in the barista profession. There are many reasons to celebrate […]


Joven and Atucún Join Forces to Empower Young Farmers

The two brands have collaborated to create a unique coffee bar and support young farmers in the coffee and cacao industries. BY VASILEIA FANARIOTISENIOR ONLINE…


New AFCA Director Gilbert Gatali on the 20th African Fine Coffees Conference

As the African Fine Coffees Association (AFCA) prepares for the 20th iteration of its flagship event, the African Fine Coffees Conference and Exhibition, the group is operating under new executive…

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

minimum dose size?

Jan 31, 2024 |

I use the Hario switch to brew my coffee and am trying to reduce my caffeine consumption. Hence I would like to brew smaller cups of coffee. I am currently using 10g of coffee with 160g of water. (1:16 Ratio) I am wondering if there is a minimum amount of coffee...

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

I used to wonder why my coffee was almost always sour. It seems other people have the same problem, so I just want to share my story, my frustration, and my happy discovery.

I'm also curious how other people learned the difference between sour vs stale? And what words you do you use to describe those flavors?

TL;DR- bought a good grinder, bought fresh roasted coffee. Learned that stale sour is different than under extracted sour. Also, old beans stale is different than old grounds stale.

For my home coffee, I used to grind finer and finer and brew hotter and hotter and still have problems with sourness… I was buying grocery store coffee, sometimes preground, and using a cheapo javapresse ceramic burr hand grinder. Also, I'm the only coffee drinker in the house, so it could take weeks or months to use up a bag.

Recently, I learned that what I thought was sour coffee was stale coffee. Under extracted sourness is different. It has a mouth puckering sour feel, not just a sour taste. I'm even thinking that roasted too long ago vs. ground too long ago staleness have different stale flavors.

My timeline of realization went like this: Early December- gifted a bag of roasted in October Intelligentsia beans, put them in the freezer knowing I would get a good grinder soon. Mid December- bought some specialty coffee locally about 5 days after it was roasted. Had the coffee shop grind it for me. I started keeping a journal of tasting notes and brewing methods.

That local coffee tasted a bit harsh for a day or two, then leveled off and was good, then lost its aroma, but tasted okay. This over a week or two. Then I got my 1ZPresso grinder and thawed out the Intelligentsia beans. They were good but just a touch ashy on the finish, if steeped too long. I mostly brewed those for the next couple weeks.

Then I busted the local coffee back out a couple days ago, so it was ground almost a month ago. No aroma to the grounds. Suuuuper sour coffee like I used to always make. Tastes like vegetables. Tastes I don't know, green? Undrinkable. Tossed it all out.

Went back to Intelligentsia, ashy/roasty flavour more evident. Tried a new aeropress recipe with much coarser grind. Totally different! Not as ashy, but…. sour. My mouth felt like I ate sour candy. So that's what sour means!

The beans that were roasted months ago tasted ashy-roasty-sour when fresh ground, the fresh roasted but ground weeks ago coffee tasted plant-sour, and the under extracted coffee tasted (and felt) sour candy sour. Only the last one had the notably different mouthfeel.

Maybe time past roast has more of an effect on purely internal/ time based chemical changes, while time past grinding has more of an effect on just oxidation type changes due to the increased surface area?

I'm starting to experiment and make bad coffee on purpose now. Too hot water, too cold, waaaaay too much coffee, or extreme grind sizes. I hope I learn more about defects this way, and I hope this story helps someone!

submitted by /u/Classy-J
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Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Perfect Little Beans

Chinmey Hill Coffee uses specialty-grade beans with zero primary defects (such as black beans or sour beans) and less than five secondary defects (such as broken beans). This is important because primary defects will greatly affect the taste of the coffee. Having zero defects allows the coffee to be the most optimal flavor.

Window for Optimal Flavor

Chimney Hill Coffee ships our coffee the same day it was roasted, so you will receive it before it enters the window of optimal flavor.  This means you’ll never miss the opportunity to enjoy the coffee’s peak flavor.

Coffee Ratings

Coffee undergoes many scoring processes by professionals who achieved their Q Grader certification. Coffee is first graded when it’s green. If there are defects the coffee is determined to be “not-specialty grade”. For those coffees that pass green grading, they are sample roasted and cupped. (Cupping is the official term for critically tasting and scoring coffees. The official cupping form is standard worldwide, and where the 100-point scoring system comes from.) A coffee’s dry fragrance, wet aroma, flavor, aftertaste, body, acidity, balance, and overall impression are taken into consideration while uniformity issues and defects, will lower the overall score.

Specialty Coffee

Specialty coffee, coined by Erna Knutsen in 1974, refers to a coffee that receives a quality grading score of 80 percent or higher. While “premium” or “gourmet” seem like they’re synonymous with “specialty,” they simply are marketing terms with no defined standards. Specialty coffees are grown in specific and ideal micro-climates, and have distinctive and unique flavor profiles, with little to no defects.

Third-Wave Coffee

We’re currently in the third wave of coffee. The first wave of American coffee put pre-ground, vacuum-sealed cans in kitchens across America. The second wave started with the late ‘60s introduction of Peet’s coffee (by Alfred Peet) through the proliferation of Starbucks. The third wave of coffee focuses on origin transparency, nuanced flavors, and artisan roasting. The term “third wave” is synonymous with specialty coffee.

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

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