Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Understanding the Process: Carbonic Maceration

Continuing our series on coffee processing, we learn about carbonic maceration—a unique, newer processing method. BY TANYA NANETTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Photos courtesy of Cafe Imports Editor’s note: Check out more entries in our “Understanding the Process“ series here. The rise of the specialty-coffee scene has helped many people understand that talking about coffee as something […]


Weekly Coffee News: Grounds for Health Week + Iconic SF Shop Closes

Welcome to DCN’s Weekly Coffee News. Keep up with all the latest coffee industry stories and career opportunities by subscribing to DCN’s newsletter. Tell our editors about your news here. Registration Opens for Inaugural…


The coffee industry’s biggest competition: The story of the World Barista Championship

Every year, the global coffee industry gears up for one of its most exciting and groundbreaking competitions: the World Barista Championship. For more than two decades, the WBC has been one of the biggest catalysts for change and innovation in specialty coffee, and continues to set even higher standards for baristas around the world to […]


Exploring the Potential of Drones in Coffee Production 

New drone technology has the potential to revolutionize coffee farming from the air. BY VASILEIA FANARIOTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Cover photo by David Henrichs via Unsplash In an ever-evolving technological landscape, coffee producers have begun turning to drones in an attempt to increase efficiency and operations. These unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) offer a wide range of […]

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Is the World Barista Championship too exclusive & expensive for competitors?

There are a number of competitions in specialty coffee designed to test the skills and knowledge of industry professionals. However, many consider the World Barista Championship (WBC) to be one of the most esteemed and highly regarded events, acting as a platform to showcase excellence in the barista profession. There are many reasons to celebrate […]


Ukraine’s Soloway Coffee Opens First US Shop in Chicago

A specialty coffee roasting company based in western Ukraine called Soloway Coffee (Instagram link) this week opened its first location in the United States. Beans roasted in Ternopil, Ukraine, using…


An In-Depth Look at Gruppo Cimbali’s Coffee Technician Wheel

The Coffee Technician Wheel is a new tool that helps technicians understand the complexity of coffee extraction. BY VASILEIA FANARIOTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Photos courtesy of Edgardo Ferrero and Espresso Academy Coffee technicians are responsible for a complex set of tasks related to the production and extraction of coffee. They manage customer requests and need to […]


3 Elements Coffee: Supporting Veterans, One Cup at a Time  

The Australian roasting company helps to create opportunities for veteran communities.  BY VASILEIA FANARIOTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Photos courtesy of 3 Elements Coffee  Brisbane, Australia-based 3 Elements Coffee, founded by Navy veteran Terry McNally in 2016, has a mission to support the transition of ex-military personnel into the commercial workspace. To help achieve their goal and raise […]

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Miami-Made Panther Coffee is Popping Up in Manhattan

Beloved Miami specialty coffee company Panther Coffee is making its first major New York City showing with the opening of a popup shop in Soho. With a soft opening scheduled…


A Look at Digital Coffee Future’s Digital Origin Education Program

The new program connects coffee producers to one another, provides them with educational resources, and more. BY VASILEIA FANARIOTISENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Photos courtesy of the Cocaerol, Comal & Amprocal cooperatives in Honduras Since 2021, Digital Coffee Future (DCF) has been working on a digital training program to address the needs of coffee producers. In September […]


4 Cool Cafés to Try Out in Bologna

Bologna, the Italian city home to the world’s oldest university, is traditionally famous for its food and drink—and it has some stellar specialty cafés. BY TANYA NANETTI SENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Featured photo by Annie Spratt via Unsplash Bologna is home to the oldest university in the world and is the unofficial “capital“ of the porticos […]


What I Learned from My First Tea Ceremony

After taking in a brief moment of a tea ceremony in Thailand, I finally had the chance to participate in the full experience recently in Malaysia. BY TANYA NANETTI SENIOR ONLINE CORRESPONDENT Photos by Tanya Nanetti In the years that I worked as a barista in a café, tea always played a marginal role in […]

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

minimum dose size?

Jan 31, 2024 |

I use the Hario switch to brew my coffee and am trying to reduce my caffeine consumption. Hence I would like to brew smaller cups of coffee. I am currently using 10g of coffee with 160g of water. (1:16 Ratio) I am wondering if there is a minimum amount of coffee...

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

I used to wonder why my coffee was almost always sour. It seems other people have the same problem, so I just want to share my story, my frustration, and my happy discovery.

I'm also curious how other people learned the difference between sour vs stale? And what words you do you use to describe those flavors?

TL;DR- bought a good grinder, bought fresh roasted coffee. Learned that stale sour is different than under extracted sour. Also, old beans stale is different than old grounds stale.

For my home coffee, I used to grind finer and finer and brew hotter and hotter and still have problems with sourness… I was buying grocery store coffee, sometimes preground, and using a cheapo javapresse ceramic burr hand grinder. Also, I'm the only coffee drinker in the house, so it could take weeks or months to use up a bag.

Recently, I learned that what I thought was sour coffee was stale coffee. Under extracted sourness is different. It has a mouth puckering sour feel, not just a sour taste. I'm even thinking that roasted too long ago vs. ground too long ago staleness have different stale flavors.

My timeline of realization went like this: Early December- gifted a bag of roasted in October Intelligentsia beans, put them in the freezer knowing I would get a good grinder soon. Mid December- bought some specialty coffee locally about 5 days after it was roasted. Had the coffee shop grind it for me. I started keeping a journal of tasting notes and brewing methods.

That local coffee tasted a bit harsh for a day or two, then leveled off and was good, then lost its aroma, but tasted okay. This over a week or two. Then I got my 1ZPresso grinder and thawed out the Intelligentsia beans. They were good but just a touch ashy on the finish, if steeped too long. I mostly brewed those for the next couple weeks.

Then I busted the local coffee back out a couple days ago, so it was ground almost a month ago. No aroma to the grounds. Suuuuper sour coffee like I used to always make. Tastes like vegetables. Tastes I don't know, green? Undrinkable. Tossed it all out.

Went back to Intelligentsia, ashy/roasty flavour more evident. Tried a new aeropress recipe with much coarser grind. Totally different! Not as ashy, but…. sour. My mouth felt like I ate sour candy. So that's what sour means!

The beans that were roasted months ago tasted ashy-roasty-sour when fresh ground, the fresh roasted but ground weeks ago coffee tasted plant-sour, and the under extracted coffee tasted (and felt) sour candy sour. Only the last one had the notably different mouthfeel.

Maybe time past roast has more of an effect on purely internal/ time based chemical changes, while time past grinding has more of an effect on just oxidation type changes due to the increased surface area?

I'm starting to experiment and make bad coffee on purpose now. Too hot water, too cold, waaaaay too much coffee, or extreme grind sizes. I hope I learn more about defects this way, and I hope this story helps someone!

submitted by /u/Classy-J
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Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

Perfect Little Beans

Chinmey Hill Coffee uses specialty-grade beans with zero primary defects (such as black beans or sour beans) and less than five secondary defects (such as broken beans). This is important because primary defects will greatly affect the taste of the coffee. Having zero defects allows the coffee to be the most optimal flavor.

Window for Optimal Flavor

Chimney Hill Coffee ships our coffee the same day it was roasted, so you will receive it before it enters the window of optimal flavor.  This means you’ll never miss the opportunity to enjoy the coffee’s peak flavor.

Coffee Ratings

Coffee undergoes many scoring processes by professionals who achieved their Q Grader certification. Coffee is first graded when it’s green. If there are defects the coffee is determined to be “not-specialty grade”. For those coffees that pass green grading, they are sample roasted and cupped. (Cupping is the official term for critically tasting and scoring coffees. The official cupping form is standard worldwide, and where the 100-point scoring system comes from.) A coffee’s dry fragrance, wet aroma, flavor, aftertaste, body, acidity, balance, and overall impression are taken into consideration while uniformity issues and defects, will lower the overall score.

Specialty Coffee

Specialty coffee, coined by Erna Knutsen in 1974, refers to a coffee that receives a quality grading score of 80 percent or higher. While “premium” or “gourmet” seem like they’re synonymous with “specialty,” they simply are marketing terms with no defined standards. Specialty coffees are grown in specific and ideal micro-climates, and have distinctive and unique flavor profiles, with little to no defects.

Third-Wave Coffee

We’re currently in the third wave of coffee. The first wave of American coffee put pre-ground, vacuum-sealed cans in kitchens across America. The second wave started with the late ‘60s introduction of Peet’s coffee (by Alfred Peet) through the proliferation of Starbucks. The third wave of coffee focuses on origin transparency, nuanced flavors, and artisan roasting. The term “third wave” is synonymous with specialty coffee.

Sour vs stale, and different types of stale?

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